[wsjt-devel] FT8 and "Call 1st"

[Joe Taylor]

Hi all,

WSJT-X v1.8.0-rc1 includes an optional feature that is a significant
departure from all previous WSJT-related software.

When you call CQ in FT8 mode with both "Auto Seq" and "Call 1st"
checked, the program automatically selects the first decoded response to
your CQ and starts a QSO with the selected station. The effect is the
same as if you had double-clicked on the caller's message. Subsequent
transmissions will then continue automatically through the standard QSO
sequence.

When the contact is complete the CQ message (Tx6 on Tab 1) is selected
but "Tx Enable" is turned OFF. This choice is intentional. We want
WSJT-X to be a tool for assisting contacts between human operators, not
an "Automatic QSO Machine".

For a mode with 15-second T/R sequences and very little time for
selecting reply messages, there are obvious merits of the approach we
have tentatively adopted. However, there are also some obvious
consequences that might not be considered desirable. Do we want a
computer algorithm to take part in choosing our QSO partners?

It seems like a good idea to have some public discussion on whether
"Call 1st" already goes too far in the direction of QSO automation.

Some of you noticed that a "Weak" box appeared briefly beside "Call 1st"
(but was not yet implemented). The idea was that when two or more
replies were received to one's CQ, this option would select the one with
lower S/N -- potentially encouraging people to keep their power turned
down, as appropriate for conditions.

We are interested in feedback from users on the question of partial QSO
automation. Should "Call 1st" be changed or removed?

One more point: FT8 signals occupy the frequency/time plane more
"densely" than JT65. For this reason, even when we have implemented
signal subtraction and multi-pass decoding, overlapping signals will be
less likely to decode than is the case with JT65. You may soon discover
that it often pays to respond to a CQ "off frequency" by 60 Hz or more.
We might consider offering a tool to make this easier to do.

-- Joe, K1JT

[Erik -]

"We are interested in feedback from users on the question of partial QSO automation. Should "Call 1st" be changed or removed?"

I like it as it is. One thing though, it gets broken by callsigns such as EA8/G8BCG. When commuted to G8BCG for the QSO, auto sequence stops. Not a big deal since reciprocal calls such as this one are not too common. My over-riding request is to not remove "Call 1st".

Erik EI4KF.

[Gordon Higgins]

keep fist call. ok on enable tx as u say it would be like sim 31 give up
go out come back see hue u worked hi

Post by Erik -
"We are interested in feedback from users on the question of partial QSO
automation. Should "Call 1st" be changed or removed?"
I like it as it is. One thing though, it gets broken by callsigns such as
EA8/G8BCG. When commuted to G8BCG for the QSO, auto sequence stops. Not a
big deal since reciprocal calls such as this one are not too common. My
over-riding request is to not remove "Call 1st".
Erik EI4KF.
------------------------------------------------------------
------------------
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
wsjt-devel mailing list
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wsjt-devel

[Black Michael via wsjt-devel]

I did send the patch that fixes that...did you see it?
de Mike W9MDB

From: Erik - <***@live.com>
To: WSJT software development <wsjt-***@lists.sourceforge.net>
Sent: Tuesday, July 11, 2017 11:04 AM
Subject: Re: [wsjt-devel] FT8 and "Call 1st"


"We are interested in feedback from users on the question of partial QSO automation.  Should "Call 1st" be changed or removed?"

I like it as it is. One thing though, it gets broken by callsigns such as EA8/G8BCG. When commuted to G8BCG for the QSO, auto sequence stops. Not a big deal since reciprocal calls such as this one are not too common. My over-riding request is to not remove "Call 1st".

Erik EI4KF.

[James Shaver (N2ADV)]

I think the fact that it's user selectable is important and I agree it should be kept because the turnaround time to respond to an inbound message is very short (this is especially noticeable for those of us that do 99% of our operating remotely where internet connections may prevent successful replies in such a short amount of time). Purists can certainly choose to not enable the feature but I think it's a nice feature. I also agree with disabling the TX once the user hits the "73" in the cycle - user intervention is still required which is still important in my opinion.

My 2 cents. :)

73,

Jim S.
N2ADV

Post by Black Michael via wsjt-devel
I did send the patch that fixes that...did you see it?
de Mike W9MDB
Sent: Tuesday, July 11, 2017 11:04 AM
Subject: Re: [wsjt-devel] FT8 and "Call 1st"
"We are interested in feedback from users on the question of partial QSO automation. Should "Call 1st" be changed or removed?"
I like it as it is. One thing though, it gets broken by callsigns such as EA8/G8BCG. When commuted to G8BCG for the QSO, auto sequence stops. Not a big deal since reciprocal calls such as this one are not too common. My over-riding request is to not remove "Call 1st".
Erik EI4KF.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
wsjt-devel mailing list
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wsjt-devel
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
wsjt-devel mailing list
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wsjt-devel

[George J Molnar]

I like the feature. Suggestions for its “final”condition include -

1) May be enabled or disabled by operator
2) Apply equally to all modes
3) Work only with standard sequence messages
4) Require a minimum of one user intervention per contact (logging/reset sequence, after 73)
5) Support complex callsigns without additional steps
6) Define behaviors for multiple caller situations, preferably with user definable criteria (weak or strong sign, new DXCC, not worked before, etc.)

Probably a big bite at first, but could be a great help overall.

73


George J Molnar, KF2T
Nevada, USA

Post by James Shaver (N2ADV)
I think the fact that it's user selectable is important and I agree it should be kept because the turnaround time to respond to an inbound message is very short (this is especially noticeable for those of us that do 99% of our operating remotely where internet connections may prevent successful replies in such a short amount of time). Purists can certainly choose to not enable the feature but I think it's a nice feature. I also agree with disabling the TX once the user hits the "73" in the cycle - user intervention is still required which is still important in my opinion.
My 2 cents. :)
73,
Jim S.
N2ADV

Post by Black Michael via wsjt-devel
I did send the patch that fixes that...did you see it?
de Mike W9MDB
Sent: Tuesday, July 11, 2017 11:04 AM
Subject: Re: [wsjt-devel] FT8 and "Call 1st"
"We are interested in feedback from users on the question of partial QSO automation. Should "Call 1st" be changed or removed?"
I like it as it is. One thing though, it gets broken by callsigns such as EA8/G8BCG. When commuted to G8BCG for the QSO, auto sequence stops. Not a big deal since reciprocal calls such as this one are not too common. My over-riding request is to not remove "Call 1st".
Erik EI4KF.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
wsjt-devel mailing list
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wsjt-devel
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
wsjt-devel mailing list
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wsjt-devel

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
wsjt-devel mailing list
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wsjt-devel

[Morgen Benner]

I'm new to the group, so I hope it's okay to share my opinion as I've used
JT9/65 for some time now and just started using FT8 last night.

Personally, I don't care for the Call 1st or Call Weak options. Seems too
automated for me. It's only a 15 second cycle, so no big deal if you don't
get them answered on the first try. What I've been doing is:

1. Call CQ
2. Watch the Waterfall.
3. If I see someone replying to my CQ, Disable TX so I don't accidentally
CQ again.
4. As soon as possible, double-click the caller when decoded.

The JT modes all include redundancy in the transmission. You probably have
at least 5 seconds after the start of the cycle, maybe more to start
transmitting and enough information will still make it through for a
successful decode.

That said, if others really want the auto-reply features, I won't be
heartbroken to see them included. To each their own, as long as I could
still disable them. Freedom of choice and all.

As for the auto-sequencing, this I like and have no problem with. I didn't
realize it would do it at first and when I did, it was a much welcomed
help. Don't see it as being necessary on JT9/65 since you have at least 10
seconds there.

For the auto 60Hz shift on answering CQs, I think this is a bad idea. It
seems like it will cause a LOT of headaches when careless ops don't check
the shift direction and double over someone else's QSO instead of their
own. Seems wrong to risk impacting others' QSOs for the sake of your own.

Just my 2 cents.

73,
KC9SWV - Morgen
President, TARA

Post by George J Molnar
I like the feature. Suggestions for its “final”condition include -
1) May be enabled or disabled by operator
2) Apply equally to all modes
3) Work only with standard sequence messages
4) Require a minimum of one user intervention per contact (logging/reset
sequence, after 73)
5) Support complex callsigns without additional steps
6) Define behaviors for multiple caller situations, preferably with user
definable criteria (weak or strong sign, new DXCC, not worked before, etc.)
Probably a big bite at first, but could be a great help overall.
73
George J Molnar, KF2T
Nevada, USA
I think the fact that it's user selectable is important and I agree it
should be kept because the turnaround time to respond to an inbound message
is very short (this is especially noticeable for those of us that do 99% of
our operating remotely where internet connections may prevent successful
replies in such a short amount of time). Purists can certainly choose to
not enable the feature but I think it's a nice feature. I also agree with
disabling the TX once the user hits the "73" in the cycle - user
intervention is still required which is still important in my opinion.
My 2 cents. :)
73,
Jim S.
N2ADV
On Jul 11, 2017, at 12:07 PM, Black Michael via wsjt-devel <
I did send the patch that fixes that...did you see it?
de Mike W9MDB
------------------------------
*Sent:* Tuesday, July 11, 2017 11:04 AM
*Subject:* Re: [wsjt-devel] FT8 and "Call 1st"
"We are interested in feedback from users on the question of partial QSO
automation. Should "Call 1st" be changed or removed?"
I like it as it is. One thing though, it gets broken by callsigns such as
EA8/G8BCG. When commuted to G8BCG for the QSO, auto sequence stops. Not a
big deal since reciprocal calls such as this one are not too common. My
over-riding request is to not remove "Call 1st".
Erik EI4KF.
------------------------------------------------------------
------------------
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
wsjt-devel mailing list
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wsjt-devel
------------------------------------------------------------
------------------
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
wsjt-devel mailing list
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wsjt-devel
------------------------------------------------------------
------------------
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
wsjt-devel mailing list
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wsjt-devel
------------------------------------------------------------
------------------
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
wsjt-devel mailing list
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wsjt-devel

[Joe Taylor]

Hi all,

Post by Morgen Benner
For the auto 60Hz shift on answering CQs, I think this is a bad idea.

We have never considered anything like an "auto shift" of Tx frequency.

What we *might* do is provide an easy way to move your Tx frequency up
or down manually in increments of 60 Hz (or perhaps some other number)
to choose an apparently free frequency.

WSJT-X v1.8.0-rc1 already has a trial version of such a facility, but
its present logic may not be exactly what we'll want to make permanent.

As it is now, Shift+F11 and Shift+F12 move your Tx frequency up or down
to the nearest integer multiple of 50 Hz. Maybe this should be 60 Hz,
instead, since (after the recent change in the FT8 symbol length) the
bandwidth of an FT8 signal is 50 Hz.

If everyone used the new FreqCal tool, we might even find that it makes
sense to use quasi-channelized operation so that Tx frequency is always
an integral multiple of 60 Hz.

-- Joe, K1JT

[Morgen Benner]

Thanks for clarifying Joe, and thank you for the hard work you and the
development team pour into this awesome software and exciting new modes!

Sorry I misunderstood the suggestion. I do like the idea of
quasi-channelizing FT8 since it's so dense that it has issues with decoding
overlapping signals. I would even go so far as suggesting the software
force you to use the frequency calibration tool before it will transmit.
One extra step in the setup won't hurt anyone.

73,
KC9SWV - Morgen
President, TARA

Post by Joe Taylor
Hi all,
For the auto 60Hz shift on answering CQs, I think this is a bad idea.
We have never considered anything like an "auto shift" of Tx frequency.
What we *might* do is provide an easy way to move your Tx frequency up or
down manually in increments of 60 Hz (or perhaps some other number) to
choose an apparently free frequency.
WSJT-X v1.8.0-rc1 already has a trial version of such a facility, but its
present logic may not be exactly what we'll want to make permanent.
As it is now, Shift+F11 and Shift+F12 move your Tx frequency up or down to
the nearest integer multiple of 50 Hz. Maybe this should be 60 Hz,
instead, since (after the recent change in the FT8 symbol length) the
bandwidth of an FT8 signal is 50 Hz.
If everyone used the new FreqCal tool, we might even find that it makes
sense to use quasi-channelized operation so that Tx frequency is always an
integral multiple of 60 Hz.
-- Joe, K1JT
------------------------------------------------------------
------------------
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
wsjt-devel mailing list
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wsjt-devel

[Erik -]

I find that Shift+F11 or +F12 do indeed move my TX frequency but the RX frequency also moves a little as well.


Erik EI4KF.

-----Original Message-----
From: Joe Taylor [mailto:***@princeton.edu]
Sent: 11 July 2017 18:19
To: WSJT software development <wsjt-***@lists.sourceforge.net>
Subject: Re: [wsjt-devel] FT8 and "Call 1st"

Hi all,

Post by Morgen Benner
For the auto 60Hz shift on answering CQs, I think this is a bad idea.

We have never considered anything like an "auto shift" of Tx frequency.

What we *might* do is provide an easy way to move your Tx frequency up or down manually in increments of 60 Hz (or perhaps some other number) to choose an apparently free frequency.

WSJT-X v1.8.0-rc1 already has a trial version of such a facility, but its present logic may not be exactly what we'll want to make permanent.

As it is now, Shift+F11 and Shift+F12 move your Tx frequency up or down to the nearest integer multiple of 50 Hz. Maybe this should be 60 Hz, instead, since (after the recent change in the FT8 symbol length) the bandwidth of an FT8 signal is 50 Hz.

If everyone used the new FreqCal tool, we might even find that it makes sense to use quasi-channelized operation so that Tx frequency is always an integral multiple of 60 Hz.

-- Joe, K1JT

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot _______________________________________________
wsjt-devel mailing list
wsjt-***@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wsjt-devel

[Erik -]

I wouldn’t know what to do with a patch if it came up and bit me on the ****. Gratified though to know that it is in the pipeline for a future release.

Thank you as always.

Erik EI4KF.


From: Black Michael via wsjt-devel [mailto:wsjt-***@lists.sourceforge.net]
Sent: 11 July 2017 16:08
To: WSJT software development <wsjt-***@lists.sourceforge.net>
Cc: Black Michael <***@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [wsjt-devel] FT8 and "Call 1st"

I did send the patch that fixes that...did you see it?

de Mike W9MDB


________________________________
From: Erik - <***@live.com<mailto:***@live.com>>
To: WSJT software development <wsjt-***@lists.sourceforge.net<mailto:wsjt-***@lists.sourceforge.net>>
Sent: Tuesday, July 11, 2017 11:04 AM
Subject: Re: [wsjt-devel] FT8 and "Call 1st"


"We are interested in feedback from users on the question of partial QSO automation. Should "Call 1st" be changed or removed?"

I like it as it is. One thing though, it gets broken by callsigns such as EA8/G8BCG. When commuted to G8BCG for the QSO, auto sequence stops. Not a big deal since reciprocal calls such as this one are not too common. My over-riding request is to not remove "Call 1st".

Erik EI4KF.



------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
wsjt-devel mailing list
wsjt-***@lists.sourceforge.net<mailto:wsjt-***@lists.sourceforge.net>
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wsjt-devel

[Jim - N4ST]

Please keep "Call 1st". It is a great aid to us old timers.
If people don't like it, don't click the box.

____________
73,
Jim - N4ST


-----Original Message-----
From: Erik - [mailto:***@live.com]
Sent: Tuesday, July 11, 2017 12:02
To: WSJT software development <wsjt-***@lists.sourceforge.net>
Subject: Re: [wsjt-devel] FT8 and "Call 1st"


"We are interested in feedback from users on the question of partial QSO
automation. Should "Call 1st" be changed or removed?"

I like it as it is. One thing though, it gets broken by callsigns such as
EA8/G8BCG. When commuted to G8BCG for the QSO, auto sequence stops. Not a
big deal since reciprocal calls such as this one are not too common. My
over-riding request is to not remove "Call 1st".

Erik EI4KF.


----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging
tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
wsjt-devel mailing list
wsjt-***@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wsjt-devel

[Ricky Scott W7PSK]

As Jim said, its a nice AID to us old timers that cant click the red in
1 second

------ Original Message ------
From: "Jim - N4ST" <***@jimpricejr.com>
To: "'WSJT software development'" <wsjt-***@lists.sourceforge.net>
Sent: 7/11/2017 4:07:40 PM
Subject: Re: [wsjt-devel] FT8 and "Call 1st"

Post by Jim - N4ST
Please keep "Call 1st". It is a great aid to us old timers.
If people don't like it, don't click the box.
____________
73,
Jim - N4ST
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Tuesday, July 11, 2017 12:02
Subject: Re: [wsjt-devel] FT8 and "Call 1st"
"We are interested in feedback from users on the question of partial QSO
automation. Should "Call 1st" be changed or removed?"
I like it as it is. One thing though, it gets broken by callsigns such as
EA8/G8BCG. When commuted to G8BCG for the QSO, auto sequence stops. Not a
big deal since reciprocal calls such as this one are not too common. My
over-riding request is to not remove "Call 1st".
Erik EI4KF.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging
tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
wsjt-devel mailing list
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wsjt-devel
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
wsjt-devel mailing list
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wsjt-devel

[Ross Primrose]

One feature I'd like to see is if you answer a CQ, and the station comes
back to someone else, halt tx...

73, Ross N4RP

Post by Ricky Scott W7PSK
As Jim said, its a nice AID to us old timers that cant click the red
in 1 second
------ Original Message ------
Sent: 7/11/2017 4:07:40 PM
Subject: Re: [wsjt-devel] FT8 and "Call 1st"

Post by Jim - N4ST
Please keep "Call 1st". It is a great aid to us old timers.
If people don't like it, don't click the box.
____________
73,
Jim - N4ST
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Tuesday, July 11, 2017 12:02
Subject: Re: [wsjt-devel] FT8 and "Call 1st"
"We are interested in feedback from users on the question of partial QSO
automation. Should "Call 1st" be changed or removed?"
I like it as it is. One thing though, it gets broken by callsigns such as
EA8/G8BCG. When commuted to G8BCG for the QSO, auto sequence stops. Not a
big deal since reciprocal calls such as this one are not too common. My
over-riding request is to not remove "Call 1st".
Erik EI4KF.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging
tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
wsjt-devel mailing list
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wsjt-devel
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
wsjt-devel mailing list
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wsjt-devel

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
wsjt-devel mailing list
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wsjt-devel

[James Shaver (N2ADV)]

That's built into the wetware (brain matter) of the person controlling the program :)

One feature I'd like to see is if you answer a CQ, and the station comes back to someone else, halt tx...
73, Ross N4RP

As Jim said, its a nice AID to us old timers that cant click the red in 1 second
------ Original Message ------
Sent: 7/11/2017 4:07:40 PM
Subject: Re: [wsjt-devel] FT8 and "Call 1st"

Post by Jim - N4ST
Please keep "Call 1st". It is a great aid to us old timers.
If people don't like it, don't click the box.
____________
73,
Jim - N4ST
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Tuesday, July 11, 2017 12:02
Subject: Re: [wsjt-devel] FT8 and "Call 1st"
"We are interested in feedback from users on the question of partial QSO
automation. Should "Call 1st" be changed or removed?"
I like it as it is. One thing though, it gets broken by callsigns such as
EA8/G8BCG. When commuted to G8BCG for the QSO, auto sequence stops. Not a
big deal since reciprocal calls such as this one are not too common. My
over-riding request is to not remove "Call 1st".
Erik EI4KF.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging
tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
wsjt-devel mailing list
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wsjt-devel
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
wsjt-devel mailing list
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wsjt-devel

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
wsjt-devel mailing list
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wsjt-devel

--
FCC Section 97.313(a) “At all times, an amateur station must use the minimum transmitter power necessary to carry out the desired communications.”
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
wsjt-devel mailing list
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wsjt-devel

[Gordon Higgins]

? why in auto seqence will it not send free text tx5 ft8 ?

Post by James Shaver (N2ADV)
That's built into the wetware (brain matter) of the person controlling the program :)

Post by Ross Primrose
One feature I'd like to see is if you answer a CQ, and the station comes

back to someone else, halt tx...

Post by Ross Primrose
73, Ross N4RP

Post by Ricky Scott W7PSK
As Jim said, its a nice AID to us old timers that cant click the red in

1 second

Post by Ross Primrose

Post by Ricky Scott W7PSK
------ Original Message ------
Sent: 7/11/2017 4:07:40 PM
Subject: Re: [wsjt-devel] FT8 and "Call 1st"

Post by Jim - N4ST
Please keep "Call 1st". It is a great aid to us old timers.
If people don't like it, don't click the box.
____________
73,
Jim - N4ST
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Tuesday, July 11, 2017 12:02
Subject: Re: [wsjt-devel] FT8 and "Call 1st"
"We are interested in feedback from users on the question of partial

QSO

Post by Ross Primrose

Post by Ricky Scott W7PSK

Post by Jim - N4ST
automation. Should "Call 1st" be changed or removed?"
I like it as it is. One thing though, it gets broken by callsigns such

as

Post by Ross Primrose

Post by Ricky Scott W7PSK

Post by Jim - N4ST
EA8/G8BCG. When commuted to G8BCG for the QSO, auto sequence stops.

Not a

Post by Ross Primrose

Post by Ricky Scott W7PSK

Post by Jim - N4ST
big deal since reciprocal calls such as this one are not too common. My
over-riding request is to not remove "Call 1st".
Erik EI4KF.
------------------------------------------------------------

----------------

Post by Ross Primrose

Post by Ricky Scott W7PSK

Post by Jim - N4ST
--
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most

engaging

Post by Ross Primrose

Post by Ricky Scott W7PSK

Post by Jim - N4ST
tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
wsjt-devel mailing list
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wsjt-devel
------------------------------------------------------------

------------------

Post by Ross Primrose

Post by Ricky Scott W7PSK

Post by Jim - N4ST
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
wsjt-devel mailing list
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wsjt-devel

------------------------------------------------------------

------------------

Post by Ross Primrose

Post by Ricky Scott W7PSK
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
wsjt-devel mailing list
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wsjt-devel

--
FCC Section 97.313(a) “At all times, an amateur station must use the

minimum transmitter power necessary to carry out the desired
communications.”

Post by Ross Primrose
------------------------------------------------------------

------------------

Post by Ross Primrose
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
wsjt-devel mailing list
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wsjt-devel

------------------------------------------------------------
------------------
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
wsjt-devel mailing list
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wsjt-devel

[Gordon Higgins]

to send free text u nead to remove auto seq this works ok thanks

Post by Gordon Higgins
? why in auto seqence will it not send free text tx5 ft8 ?

Post by James Shaver (N2ADV)
That's built into the wetware (brain matter) of the person controlling the program :)

Post by Ross Primrose
One feature I'd like to see is if you answer a CQ, and the station

comes back to someone else, halt tx...

Post by Ross Primrose
73, Ross N4RP

Post by Ricky Scott W7PSK
As Jim said, its a nice AID to us old timers that cant click the red

in 1 second

Post by Ross Primrose

Post by Ricky Scott W7PSK
------ Original Message ------
Sent: 7/11/2017 4:07:40 PM
Subject: Re: [wsjt-devel] FT8 and "Call 1st"

Post by Jim - N4ST
Please keep "Call 1st". It is a great aid to us old timers.
If people don't like it, don't click the box.
____________
73,
Jim - N4ST
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Tuesday, July 11, 2017 12:02
Subject: Re: [wsjt-devel] FT8 and "Call 1st"
"We are interested in feedback from users on the question of partial

QSO

Post by Ross Primrose

Post by Ricky Scott W7PSK

Post by Jim - N4ST
automation. Should "Call 1st" be changed or removed?"
I like it as it is. One thing though, it gets broken by callsigns

such as

Post by Ross Primrose

Post by Ricky Scott W7PSK

Post by Jim - N4ST
EA8/G8BCG. When commuted to G8BCG for the QSO, auto sequence stops.

Not a

Post by Ross Primrose

Post by Ricky Scott W7PSK

Post by Jim - N4ST
big deal since reciprocal calls such as this one are not too common.

My

Post by Ross Primrose

Post by Ricky Scott W7PSK

Post by Jim - N4ST
over-riding request is to not remove "Call 1st".
Erik EI4KF.
------------------------------------------------------------

----------------

Post by Ross Primrose

Post by Ricky Scott W7PSK

Post by Jim - N4ST
--
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most

engaging

Post by Ross Primrose

Post by Ricky Scott W7PSK

Post by Jim - N4ST
tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
wsjt-devel mailing list
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wsjt-devel
------------------------------------------------------------

------------------

Post by Ross Primrose

Post by Ricky Scott W7PSK

Post by Jim - N4ST
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
wsjt-devel mailing list
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wsjt-devel

------------------------------------------------------------

------------------

Post by Ross Primrose

Post by Ricky Scott W7PSK
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
wsjt-devel mailing list
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wsjt-devel

--
FCC Section 97.313(a) “At all times, an amateur station must use the

minimum transmitter power necessary to carry out the desired
communications.”

Post by Ross Primrose
------------------------------------------------------------

------------------

Post by Ross Primrose
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
wsjt-devel mailing list
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wsjt-devel

------------------------------------------------------------
------------------
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
wsjt-devel mailing list
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wsjt-devel

[Neil Zampella]

The problem with that is, the person calling CQ on the other end has a
program expecting to find a 73. That said ... why would you need
to? If its to say something like 'Lotw eqsl tu', well that breaks the
autoseq on the other side, but they can find that out now with a QRZ
lookup !!

Post by Gordon Higgins
to send free text u nead to remove auto seq this works ok thanks
? why in auto seqence will it not send free text tx5 ft8 ?
On 12 July 2017 at 12:15, James Shaver (N2ADV)
That's built into the wetware (brain matter) of the person
controlling the program :)

Post by Ross Primrose
One feature I'd like to see is if you answer a CQ, and the

station comes back to someone else, halt tx...

Post by Ross Primrose
73, Ross N4RP

Post by Ricky Scott W7PSK
As Jim said, its a nice AID to us old timers that cant

click the red in 1 second

Post by Ross Primrose

Post by Ricky Scott W7PSK
------ Original Message ------
To: "'WSJT software development'"
Sent: 7/11/2017 4:07:40 PM
Subject: Re: [wsjt-devel] FT8 and "Call 1st"

Post by Jim - N4ST
Please keep "Call 1st". It is a great aid to us old timers.
If people don't like it, don't click the box.
____________
73,
Jim - N4ST
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Tuesday, July 11, 2017 12:02
To: WSJT software development
Subject: Re: [wsjt-devel] FT8 and "Call 1st"
"We are interested in feedback from users on the question

of partial QSO

Post by Ross Primrose

Post by Ricky Scott W7PSK

Post by Jim - N4ST
automation. Should "Call 1st" be changed or removed?"
I like it as it is. One thing though, it gets broken by

callsigns such as

Post by Ross Primrose

Post by Ricky Scott W7PSK

Post by Jim - N4ST
EA8/G8BCG. When commuted to G8BCG for the QSO, auto

sequence stops. Not a

Post by Ross Primrose

Post by Ricky Scott W7PSK

Post by Jim - N4ST
big deal since reciprocal calls such as this one are not

too common. My

Post by Ross Primrose

Post by Ricky Scott W7PSK

Post by Jim - N4ST
over-riding request is to not remove "Call 1st".
Erik EI4KF.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Post by Ross Primrose

Post by Ricky Scott W7PSK

Post by Jim - N4ST
--
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's

most engaging

Post by Ross Primrose

Post by Ricky Scott W7PSK

Post by Jim - N4ST
tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
wsjt-devel mailing list
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wsjt-devel

<https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wsjt-devel>
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Post by Ross Primrose

Post by Ricky Scott W7PSK

Post by Jim - N4ST
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's

most

Post by Ross Primrose

Post by Ricky Scott W7PSK

Post by Jim - N4ST
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
wsjt-devel mailing list
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wsjt-devel

<https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wsjt-devel>
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Post by Ross Primrose

Post by Ricky Scott W7PSK
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
wsjt-devel mailing list
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wsjt-devel

<https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wsjt-devel>

Post by Ross Primrose
--
FCC Section 97.313(a) “At all times, an amateur station must

use the minimum transmitter power necessary to carry out the
desired communications.”
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Post by Ross Primrose
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
wsjt-devel mailing list
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wsjt-devel

<https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wsjt-devel>
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
wsjt-devel mailing list
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wsjt-devel
<https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wsjt-devel>

[Black Michael via wsjt-devel]

We probably need a warning if the Tx 5 message will not be recognized as a final message in auto sequence.Which right now means it doesn't contain a 73.
de Mike W9MDB


From: Neil Zampella <***@techie.com>
To: wsjt-***@lists.sourceforge.net
Sent: Wednesday, July 12, 2017 9:50 AM
Subject: Re: [wsjt-devel] FT8 and "Call 1st"

The problem with that is, the person calling CQ on the other end  has a program expecting to find a 73.   That said ... why would you need to?    If its to say something like 'Lotw eqsl tu', well that breaks the autoseq on the other side, but they can find that out now with a QRZ lookup !!

On 7/12/2017 7:41 AM, Gordon Higgins wrote:

to send free text u nead to remove auto seq  this works ok thanks

On 12 July 2017 at 12:38, Gordon Higgins <***@gmail.com> wrote:

? why in auto seqence will it not send free text  tx5 ft8 ?

On 12 July 2017 at 12:15, James Shaver (N2ADV) <***@windstream.net> wrote:

That's built into the wetware (brain matter) of the person controlling the program :)

One feature I'd like to see is if you answer a CQ, and the station comes back to someone else, halt tx...
73, Ross N4RP

As Jim said, its a nice AID to us old timers that cant click the red in 1 second
------ Original Message ------
Sent: 7/11/2017 4:07:40 PM
Subject: Re: [wsjt-devel] FT8 and "Call 1st"

Please keep "Call 1st".  It is a great aid to us old timers.
If people don't like it, don't click the box.
____________
73,
Jim - N4ST
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Tuesday, July 11, 2017 12:02
Subject: Re: [wsjt-devel] FT8 and "Call 1st"
"We are interested in feedback from users on the question of partial QSO
automation.  Should "Call 1st" be changed or removed?"
I like it as it is. One thing though, it gets broken by callsigns such as
EA8/G8BCG. When commuted to G8BCG for the QSO, auto sequence stops. Not a
big deal since reciprocal calls such as this one are not too common. My
over-riding request is to not remove "Call 1st".
Erik EI4KF.
------------------------------ ------------------------------ ----------------
--
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging
tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
______________________________ _________________
wsjt-devel mailing list
https://lists.sourceforge.net/ lists/listinfo/wsjt-devel
------------------------------ ------------------------------ ------------------
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
______________________________ _________________
wsjt-devel mailing list
https://lists.sourceforge.net/ lists/listinfo/wsjt-devel

------------------------------ ------------------------------ ------------------
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
______________________________ _________________
wsjt-devel mailing list
https://lists.sourceforge.net/ lists/listinfo/wsjt-devel

--
FCC Section 97.313(a) “At all times, an amateur station must use the minimum transmitter power necessary to carry out the desired communications.”
------------------------------ ------------------------------ ------------------
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
______________________________ _________________
wsjt-devel mailing list
https://lists.sourceforge.net/ lists/listinfo/wsjt-devel

------------------------------ ------------------------------ ------------------
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
______________________________ _________________
wsjt-devel mailing list
wsjt-***@lists.sourceforge.n et
https://lists.sourceforge.net/ lists/listinfo/wsjt-devel






------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot_______________________________________________
wsjt-devel mailing list
wsjt-***@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wsjt-devel

[Ross Primrose]

You must have faster wetware than I do... It's next to impossible to
halt TX before the next TX cycle starts, and once the TX cycle starts,
even if you halt it after 1sec you loose the possibility of decoding
anyone else in that 15sec...

73, Ross N4RP

Post by James Shaver (N2ADV)
That's built into the wetware (brain matter) of the person controlling the program :)

One feature I'd like to see is if you answer a CQ, and the station comes back to someone else, halt tx...
73, Ross N4RP

As Jim said, its a nice AID to us old timers that cant click the red in 1 second
------ Original Message ------
Sent: 7/11/2017 4:07:40 PM
Subject: Re: [wsjt-devel] FT8 and "Call 1st"

Post by Jim - N4ST
Please keep "Call 1st". It is a great aid to us old timers.
If people don't like it, don't click the box.
____________
73,
Jim - N4ST
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Tuesday, July 11, 2017 12:02
Subject: Re: [wsjt-devel] FT8 and "Call 1st"
"We are interested in feedback from users on the question of partial QSO
automation. Should "Call 1st" be changed or removed?"
I like it as it is. One thing though, it gets broken by callsigns such as
EA8/G8BCG. When commuted to G8BCG for the QSO, auto sequence stops. Not a
big deal since reciprocal calls such as this one are not too common. My
over-riding request is to not remove "Call 1st".
Erik EI4KF.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging
tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
wsjt-devel mailing list
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wsjt-devel
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
wsjt-devel mailing list
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wsjt-devel

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
wsjt-devel mailing list
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wsjt-devel

--
FCC Section 97.313(a) “At all times, an amateur station must use the minimum transmitter power necessary to carry out the desired communications.”
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
wsjt-devel mailing list
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wsjt-devel

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
wsjt-devel mailing list
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wsjt-devel

[Neil Zampella]

FWIW .. you have you mouse pointer over the HALT button, and you get
ready to click, as for the missed period ... ?

I joked to a few people about this way back when FT8 was introduced, but
jeez people ... its only 15 seconds ...

Neil, KN3ILZ

Post by Ross Primrose
You must have faster wetware than I do... It's next to impossible to
halt TX before the next TX cycle starts, and once the TX cycle starts,
even if you halt it after 1sec you loose the possibility of decoding
anyone else in that 15sec...
73, Ross N4RP

Post by James Shaver (N2ADV)
That's built into the wetware (brain matter) of the person
controlling the program :)

Post by Ross Primrose
One feature I'd like to see is if you answer a CQ, and the station
comes back to someone else, halt tx...
73, Ross N4RP

As Jim said, its a nice AID to us old timers that cant click the red in 1 second
------ Original Message ------
Sent: 7/11/2017 4:07:40 PM
Subject: Re: [wsjt-devel] FT8 and "Call 1st"

Post by Jim - N4ST
Please keep "Call 1st". It is a great aid to us old timers.
If people don't like it, don't click the box.
____________
73,
Jim - N4ST
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Tuesday, July 11, 2017 12:02
Subject: Re: [wsjt-devel] FT8 and "Call 1st"
"We are interested in feedback from users on the question of partial QSO
automation. Should "Call 1st" be changed or removed?"
I like it as it is. One thing though, it gets broken by callsigns such as
EA8/G8BCG. When commuted to G8BCG for the QSO, auto sequence stops. Not a
big deal since reciprocal calls such as this one are not too common. My
over-riding request is to not remove "Call 1st".
Erik EI4KF.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging
tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
wsjt-devel mailing list
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wsjt-devel
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
wsjt-devel mailing list
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wsjt-devel

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
wsjt-devel mailing list
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wsjt-devel

--
FCC Section 97.313(a) “At all times, an amateur station must use the
minimum transmitter power necessary to carry out the desired
communications.”
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
wsjt-devel mailing list
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wsjt-devel

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
wsjt-devel mailing list
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wsjt-devel

[Ross Primrose]

I would submit that for ANY automated QSO sequencing STOPPING when you
shouldn't be transmitting is MORE important than sending the correct
transmission at the right time...

73

Post by Neil Zampella
FWIW .. you have you mouse pointer over the HALT button, and you get
ready to click, as for the missed period ... ?
I joked to a few people about this way back when FT8 was introduced,
but jeez people ... its only 15 seconds ...
Neil, KN3ILZ

You must have faster wetware than I do... It's next to impossible to
halt TX before the next TX cycle starts, and once the TX cycle
starts, even if you halt it after 1sec you loose the possibility of
decoding anyone else in that 15sec...
73, Ross N4RP

Post by James Shaver (N2ADV)
That's built into the wetware (brain matter) of the person
controlling the program :)

Post by Ross Primrose
One feature I'd like to see is if you answer a CQ, and the station
comes back to someone else, halt tx...
73, Ross N4RP

As Jim said, its a nice AID to us old timers that cant click the red in 1 second
------ Original Message ------
Sent: 7/11/2017 4:07:40 PM
Subject: Re: [wsjt-devel] FT8 and "Call 1st"

Post by Jim - N4ST
Please keep "Call 1st". It is a great aid to us old timers.
If people don't like it, don't click the box.
____________
73,
Jim - N4ST
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Tuesday, July 11, 2017 12:02
Subject: Re: [wsjt-devel] FT8 and "Call 1st"
"We are interested in feedback from users on the question of partial QSO
automation. Should "Call 1st" be changed or removed?"
I like it as it is. One thing though, it gets broken by callsigns such as
EA8/G8BCG. When commuted to G8BCG for the QSO, auto sequence stops. Not a
big deal since reciprocal calls such as this one are not too common. My
over-riding request is to not remove "Call 1st".
Erik EI4KF.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging
tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
wsjt-devel mailing list
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wsjt-devel
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
wsjt-devel mailing list
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wsjt-devel

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
wsjt-devel mailing list
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wsjt-devel

--
FCC Section 97.313(a) “At all times, an amateur station must use
the minimum transmitter power necessary to carry out the desired
communications.”
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
wsjt-devel mailing list
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wsjt-devel

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
wsjt-devel mailing list
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wsjt-devel

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
wsjt-devel mailing list
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wsjt-devel

[iain macdonnell - N6ML]

Post by Ross Primrose
One feature I'd like to see is if you answer a CQ, and the station comes
back to someone else, halt tx...

YES!! +1

To the "wetware" comment - the argument for having auto seq in the
first place applies here - you don't have a lot of time to observe the
decode and take the appropriate action. Yes, you can halt after you've
already started transmitting, but it'd be nice to not have to
scramble........

73,

~iain / N6ML

[Dave 'Doc' Corio]

Joe, first, thanks for the intense amount of work you and the
others have put into this project! The results keep getting better and
better!

You may recall years back a program named "Lan-Link. It was
designed for HF/VHF packet and was fairly widespread using PK-232 and
other TNCs. That application allowed the user to carry on up to TEN QSOs
at the same time, as well as having a "robot" mode that would decode and
respond to key words in the incoming signals.

For example, you would call CQ and AB1CDE would respond. You could
give AB1CDE his signal report and the "usual" info. When AB1CDE
returned, if he were to say "rig here is...." the program could respond
with the canned message "rig here is...........". If he said "I work
at..." the program could access the specific macro that included your
employment information.

As far as I recall this was perhaps the first software that allowed
a completely robotic QSO based on input received from the other
station. It worked, to a limited degree, as long as the QSO station used
the right words/phrases!

That said, it was fun setting it up and watching it run, but I have
no desire to see it again! Macros have their place in the world, and
I've used them for years. They can and do make tedious contest exchanges
MUCH easier. They also make it much easier to have a rag-chew. You can
send the "rig" macro while you type ahead free text to follow it.

My personal desire is that the current state of the program remain
as it is, or perhaps a "Contest Edition" or option be added. My main
reason for this is that when QSOs become too easy, it diminishes the
value of the QSO. The program now terminates transmission after each
"automatic" QSO. Adding functionality that would allow the program to
run completely on its' own would remove any challenge left in this mode.

My opinion only. YMMV

Tnx es 73
Dave - KB3MOW

Post by Joe Taylor
Hi all,
WSJT-X v1.8.0-rc1 includes an optional feature that is a significant
departure from all previous WSJT-related software.
When you call CQ in FT8 mode with both "Auto Seq" and "Call 1st"
checked, the program automatically selects the first decoded response
to your CQ and starts a QSO with the selected station. The effect is
the same as if you had double-clicked on the caller's message.
Subsequent transmissions will then continue automatically through the
standard QSO sequence.
When the contact is complete the CQ message (Tx6 on Tab 1) is selected
but "Tx Enable" is turned OFF. This choice is intentional. We want
WSJT-X to be a tool for assisting contacts between human operators,
not an "Automatic QSO Machine".
For a mode with 15-second T/R sequences and very little time for
selecting reply messages, there are obvious merits of the approach we
have tentatively adopted. However, there are also some obvious
consequences that might not be considered desirable. Do we want a
computer algorithm to take part in choosing our QSO partners?
It seems like a good idea to have some public discussion on whether
"Call 1st" already goes too far in the direction of QSO automation.
Some of you noticed that a "Weak" box appeared briefly beside "Call
1st" (but was not yet implemented). The idea was that when two or
more replies were received to one's CQ, this option would select the
one with lower S/N -- potentially encouraging people to keep their
power turned down, as appropriate for conditions.
We are interested in feedback from users on the question of partial
QSO automation. Should "Call 1st" be changed or removed?
One more point: FT8 signals occupy the frequency/time plane more
"densely" than JT65. For this reason, even when we have implemented
signal subtraction and multi-pass decoding, overlapping signals will
be less likely to decode than is the case with JT65. You may soon
discover that it often pays to respond to a CQ "off frequency" by 60
Hz or more. We might consider offering a tool to make this easier to do.
-- Joe, K1JT
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
wsjt-devel mailing list
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wsjt-devel

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

[Dan Malcolm]

Thanks Joe. Since you're looking for opinions, hers's mine:
1. I like FT8. I like the fast exchange. I also like the automation so
far. I agree that I would not want a "QSO machine". If that's what I
wanted, I'd just turn off my mind and sit in front of the TV all day.
However I like the degree of automation you have at this point. That gives
the operator a leg up in this fast mode, but it also allows him choice in
how he wants to operate. Completely manual is still a choice. Those of us
who are "aged" to perfection, do not have the reflexes that the "non-aged"
community enjoys, so the leg up is appreciated. In short, I think the
current level of automation, but no more, is the way to go.
2. I like "Call 1st" but would also like "Weak". That would be good for
encouraging low power and for capturing DX on a less than perfect
propagation day.
3. The 60Hz shift and perhaps a choice of +/- would be nice for a trial. I
know I often stay out of the JT65 pileup because it's frustrating try to
have a QSO adjacent to a stronger signal than my QSO partner. I am often
amazed the QSO's happen at all. That's when I go to JT9. I think for FT8
it would have to be tried, before viability can be assessed. That 60Hz
shift could inadvertently put you right on top of someone else.

Thanks again Joe.

Dan - K4SHQ



-----Original Message-----
From: Joe Taylor [mailto:***@princeton.edu]
Sent: Tuesday, July 11, 2017 10:42 AM
To: WSJT software development <wsjt-***@lists.sourceforge.net>
Subject: [wsjt-devel] FT8 and "Call 1st"

Hi all,

WSJT-X v1.8.0-rc1 includes an optional feature that is a significant
departure from all previous WSJT-related software.

When you call CQ in FT8 mode with both "Auto Seq" and "Call 1st"
checked, the program automatically selects the first decoded response to
your CQ and starts a QSO with the selected station. The effect is the same
as if you had double-clicked on the caller's message. Subsequent
transmissions will then continue automatically through the standard QSO
sequence.

When the contact is complete the CQ message (Tx6 on Tab 1) is selected but
"Tx Enable" is turned OFF. This choice is intentional. We want WSJT-X to
be a tool for assisting contacts between human operators, not an "Automatic
QSO Machine".

For a mode with 15-second T/R sequences and very little time for selecting
reply messages, there are obvious merits of the approach we have tentatively
adopted. However, there are also some obvious consequences that might not
be considered desirable. Do we want a computer algorithm to take part in
choosing our QSO partners?

It seems like a good idea to have some public discussion on whether "Call
1st" already goes too far in the direction of QSO automation.

Some of you noticed that a "Weak" box appeared briefly beside "Call 1st"
(but was not yet implemented). The idea was that when two or more replies
were received to one's CQ, this option would select the one with lower S/N
-- potentially encouraging people to keep their power turned down, as
appropriate for conditions.

We are interested in feedback from users on the question of partial QSO
automation. Should "Call 1st" be changed or removed?

One more point: FT8 signals occupy the frequency/time plane more "densely"
than JT65. For this reason, even when we have implemented signal
subtraction and multi-pass decoding, overlapping signals will be less likely
to decode than is the case with JT65. You may soon discover that it often
pays to respond to a CQ "off frequency" by 60 Hz or more.
We might consider offering a tool to make this easier to do.

-- Joe, K1JT

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging
tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
wsjt-devel mailing list
wsjt-***@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wsjt-devel

[Richard Lamont]

Post by Joe Taylor
We are interested in feedback from users on the question of partial QSO
automation. Should "Call 1st" be changed or removed?

I think "Call 1st" is necessary, because there isn't nearly enough time
for an operator to decide manually. As long as TX Enable is turned off
at the end of the QSO, the machine cannot work a 'run' on its own.
That's the red line that should not be crossed. If it was, the entire 2
kHz segment would be full of stations calling CQ DX 24/7 while their
owners were doing something else.

Post by Joe Taylor
One more point: FT8 signals occupy the frequency/time plane more
"densely" than JT65. For this reason, even when we have implemented
signal subtraction and multi-pass decoding, overlapping signals will be
less likely to decode than is the case with JT65. You may soon discover
that it often pays to respond to a CQ "off frequency" by 60 Hz or more.
We might consider offering a tool to make this easier to do.

I've tried doing this, using the F11 and F12 keys but found it
impossibly awkward to use.

It would be useful to be able to move the Tx frequency quickly to the
next regularly-spaced 60 Hz step up or down, perhaps by using Page Up /
Page Down as a keyboard shortcut. (I'm not sure quite how this might
interact with Lock Tx=Rx.)

73,
Richard G4DYA

[Gary McDuffie]

Post by Erik -
We are interested in feedback from users on the question of partial QSO automation. Should "Call 1st" be changed or removed?

I think the way you’ve done it is just right. You are giving the operator the OPTION of using it or not. For my own use, I’ll probably leave it off, but I know it will help many of the people to hook the caller on the first try. 1.5 seconds isn’t much time to make up your mind and move to the mouse, not to mention actual turnover time of the radios involved. Of course inaccurate clock settings will exacerbate the situation. The other issue that it allows is the operator’s choice of whether he wants to work the calling station or not.

I’d still really like to see auto-progression added to JT65. Many of us multi-task while operating. Many times, I’ve looked up and realized I fell behind with sequencing and the poor guy is sitting there repeating the last sequence over and over when I did receive it the 1st or 2nd time. Auto-QSO? No! Auto-progression? Yes!

Thanks for all of the wonderful work you and the many others have done on X.

Gary - AG0N

[Rich - K1HTV]

Gordon,

I believe that is that way because once you disable Auto Seq it will continue sending your last message over and over and not go to the next step to disable TX.


The answer is that if you want to send a free test TX5 message, populate the message box and turn off Auto Sequence. Then proceed the old fashion, JT65 way, of clicking on the message you want to be sent next until the QSO is complete.


73,

Rich - K1HTV


= = =



Send wsjt-devel mailing list submissions to

Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2017 12:38:16 +0100
From: Gordon Higgins <***@gmail.com mailto:***@gmail.com >
To: WSJT software development <wsjt-***@lists.sourceforge.net mailto:wsjt-***@lists.sourceforge.net >
Subject: Re: [wsjt-devel] FT8 and "Call 1st"
Message-ID:
<CADBfAVh2ztxAbPkqUEUCsaVj4pG45cT-JrFsL_Zyk-***@mail.gmail.com mailto:CADBfAVh2ztxAbPkqUEUCsaVj4pG45cT-JrFsL_Zyk-***@mail.gmail.com >
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

? why in auto seqence will it not send free text tx5 ft8 ?