Discussion:
[wsjt-devel] A non-technical reason to remove/relocate the audio slider
Laurie, VK3AMA
2017-07-19 20:17:59 UTC
Permalink
Having the slider immediately adjacent to the level indicator,
regardless of its true function, implies to an uneducated user (hasn't
read the manual or understood group postings) that the two are
associated. It is how most GUIs are presented.

A problem I see all too often, is some users experiencing difficulties
or think there is a defect with their software will post their
questions/findings to non-related Internet forums, QRZ and eHam are the
big ones, looking for answers and support. They don't post to the
correct support group/forum. I see this often with WSJT-X, JTAlert and
JTDX. The usual result is an incorrect or incomplete answer from a user
based on their experience or the perception of how the software works,
often wrong. It is not uncommon to see a long running thread of
exchanges between users exchanging (and reinforcing) the misinformation.
Unless someone comes along and corrects the record, this misinformation
tends to be propagated through Internet searches and word-of-mouth.

None of us like our software being incorrectly maligned due to
misinformation.

IMHO, leaving the slider adjacent to the level meter will lead to an
ongoing public perception among some users that the software is broken.
Especially after a General Release (look at the numerous threads posted
since the 1.8.0-rc1 was posted, people don't read or research old
messages). New users encountering these uncorrected public defect
reports via an Internet search will likely perceive there is a problem
with the software.

That's my 2cents.

de Laurie VK3AMA
Black Michael via wsjt-devel
2017-07-19 20:30:47 UTC
Permalink
I agree the placement is misleading...but there really isn't a better place to put it without some judicious rearranging.Would need to figure out what to do with the CAT indicator for example.Or maybe sticking it under the Date/Time might work.Just not a lot of room to work with.
de Mike W9MDB


From: "Laurie, VK3AMA" <***@vkdxer.net>
To: WSJT software development <wsjt-***@lists.sourceforge.net>
Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2017 3:22 PM
Subject: [wsjt-devel] A non-technical reason to remove/relocate the audio slider

Having the slider immediately adjacent to the level indicator,
regardless of its true function, implies to an uneducated user (hasn't
read the manual or understood group postings) that the two are
associated. It is how most GUIs are presented.

A problem I see all too often, is some users experiencing difficulties
or think there is a defect with their software will post their
questions/findings to non-related Internet forums, QRZ and eHam are the
big ones, looking for answers and support. They don't post to the
correct support group/forum. I see this often with WSJT-X, JTAlert and
JTDX. The usual result is an incorrect or incomplete answer from a user
based on their experience or the perception of how the software works,
often wrong. It is not uncommon to see a long running thread of
exchanges between users exchanging (and reinforcing) the misinformation.
Unless someone comes along and corrects the record, this misinformation
tends to be propagated through Internet searches and word-of-mouth.

None of us like our software being incorrectly maligned due to
misinformation.

IMHO, leaving the slider adjacent to the level meter will lead to an
ongoing public perception among some users that the software is broken.
Especially after a General Release (look at the numerous threads posted
since the 1.8.0-rc1 was posted, people don't read or research old
messages). New users encountering these uncorrected public defect
reports via an Internet search will likely perceive there is a problem
with the software.

That's my 2cents.

de Laurie VK3AMA
Black Michael via wsjt-devel
2017-07-19 20:54:54 UTC
Permalink
Hmmm...some feedback from those that still want it on the main screen would be nice.
de Mike W9MDB

From: David Tiller <***@captechconsulting.com>
To: Black Michael <***@yahoo.com>; WSJT software development <wsjt-***@lists.sourceforge.net>
Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2017 3:46 PM
Subject: Re: [wsjt-devel] A non-technical reason to remove/relocate the audio slider

Michael,
It doesn't have to remain a gigantic slider - it could be a simple dB spinbox like the other controls on the graph window. That would actually free up space on the main window where all the real fun happens.
--David TillerSr. Architect/Lead Consultant | CapTech(804) 304-0638 | ***@captechconsulting.com


On Jul 19, 2017, at 4:30 PM, Black Michael via wsjt-devel <wsjt-***@lists.sourceforge.net> wrote:

I agree the placement is misleading...but there really isn't a better place to put it without some judicious rearranging.Would need to figure out what to do with the CAT indicator for example.Or maybe sticking it under the Date/Time might work.Just not a lot of room to work with.
de Mike W9MDB


From: "Laurie, VK3AMA" <***@vkdxer.net>
To: WSJT software development <wsjt-***@lists.sourceforge.net>
Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2017 3:22 PM
Subject: [wsjt-devel] A non-technical reason to remove/relocate the audio slider

Having the slider immediately adjacent to the level indicator,
regardless of its true function, implies to an uneducated user (hasn't
read the manual or understood group postings) that the two are
associated. It is how most GUIs are presented.

A problem I see all too often, is some users experiencing difficulties
or think there is a defect with their software will post their
questions/findings to non-related Internet forums, QRZ and eHam are the
big ones, looking for answers and support. They don't post to the
correct support group/forum. I see this often with WSJT-X, JTAlert and
JTDX. The usual result is an incorrect or incomplete answer from a user
based on their experience or the perception of how the software works,
often wrong. It is not uncommon to see a long running thread of
exchanges between users exchanging (and reinforcing) the misinformation.
Unless someone comes along and corrects the record, this misinformation
tends to be propagated through Internet searches and word-of-mouth.

None of us like our software being incorrectly maligned due to
misinformation.

IMHO, leaving the slider adjacent to the level meter will lead to an
ongoing public perception among some users that the software is broken.
Especially after a General Release (look at the numerous threads posted
since the 1.8.0-rc1 was posted, people don't read or research old
messages). New users encountering these uncorrected public defect
reports via an Internet search will likely perceive there is a problem
with the software.

That's my 2cents.

de Laurie VK3AMA



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Gary McDuffie
2017-07-19 21:37:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Black Michael via wsjt-devel
Hmmm...some feedback from those that still want it on the main screen would be nice.
On the menu for me, Mike.

Gary - AG0N
Laurie, VK3AMA
2017-07-19 20:58:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Black Michael via wsjt-devel
I agree the placement is misleading...but there really isn't a better
place to put it without some judicious rearranging.
Would need to figure out what to do with the CAT indicator for example.
Or maybe sticking it under the Date/Time might work.
Just not a lot of room to work with.
de Mike W9MDB
What about relocating it horizontally right (to the left of the TX
messages Tab control). The DX Call and associated controls could
relocate to the left filling the now free space left by the slider, and
the free space they create to their right could be taken up by the slider.

de Laurie VK3AMA
Black Michael via wsjt-devel
2017-07-19 21:11:16 UTC
Permalink
There is no free space created by removing the slider.  The CAT widget is still there.  Though maybe we could do a color code on the freq display to show if it's working (e.g. red text if it's not since red background means OOB right now).
Seems like a lot of angst for a control that doesn't do much and will be used by a relatively small crowd.
But before moving any further need to cross the hurdle with Joe and Bill about whether to keep it at all.
There seems to be a resistance to "options" but I'm a big fan of giving operators easy-to-use controls for the way they operate and several have expressed a desire for easy graph level control from the main window.
Qt's layout facility is a PITA....I wish it was just drag'n'drop.  I don't work with it enough so have to muddle through how to even move a widget...break layout...move...recreate layout...but layout doesn't work anymore....arrghhh...
de Mike W9MDB

From: "Laurie, VK3AMA" <***@vkdxer.net>
To: wsjt-***@lists.sourceforge.net
Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2017 4:00 PM
Subject: Re: [wsjt-devel] A non-technical reason to remove/relocate the audio slider



On 20/07/2017 6:30 AM, Black Michael via wsjt-devel wrote:

I agree the placement is misleading...but there really isn't a better place to put it without some judicious rearranging. Would need to figure out what to do with the CAT indicator for example. Or maybe sticking it under the Date/Time might work. Just not a lot of room to work with.
de Mike W9MDB

What about relocating it horizontally right (to the left of the TX messages Tab control). The DX Call and associated controls could relocate to the left filling the now free space left by the slider, and the free space they create to their right could be taken up by the slider.

de Laurie VK3AMA
   
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Joe Taylor
2017-07-19 21:19:44 UTC
Permalink
Enough, already, about the audio level slider!!

Those who read the manual knew what it was for.

It confused many others, and it was responsible for a large number of
emails to two reflectors and direct to me.

Its function was mildly useful, but redundant.

It will soon be history.

-- Joe, K1JT
Bruce
2017-07-20 01:50:39 UTC
Permalink
Why, if there are level settings for both graphical displays on the graphical display dialog would a level setting on the main WSJT-X dialog be necessary? It would be more convienent if that slider actually did adjust the audio level.

73 DE VK2RT Bruce
Sent from my SAMSUNG Galaxy S7 edge on the Telstra Mobile Network
-------- Original message --------From: Gary McDuffie <***@ag0n.net> Date: 20/7/17 7:37 am (GMT+10:00) To: Black Michael <***@yahoo.com>, WSJT software development <wsjt-***@lists.sourceforge.net> Subject: Re: [wsjt-devel] A non-technical reason to remove/relocate the
  audio slider
Post by Black Michael via wsjt-devel
Hmmm...some feedback from those that still want it on the main screen would be nice.
On the menu for me, Mike.

Gary - AG0N
Bill Somerville
2017-07-20 10:20:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bruce
It would be more convienent if that slider actually did adjust the
audio level.
Hi Bruce,

how would you propose that a slider adjust the audio level?

73
Bill
G4WJS.
Bruce
2017-07-20 10:55:58 UTC
Permalink
Your right Bill, wasn't thinking straight, another senior moment.

73 DE VK2RT Bruce
Sent from my SAMSUNG Galaxy S7 edge on the Telstra Mobile Network
-------- Original message --------From: Bill Somerville <***@classdesign.com> Date: 20/7/17 8:20 pm (GMT+10:00) To: wsjt-***@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [wsjt-devel] A non-technical reason to remove/relocate the
  audio slider
Post by Bruce
It would be more convienent if that slider actually did adjust the
audio level.
Hi Bruce,

how would you propose that a slider adjust the audio level?

73
Bill
G4WJS.

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